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We think this article does not fully explain the problem. So we add this in the editor's note, bilingual edition: https://steemit.com/china/@iyouport/5auya5
Thanks for your good work, We hope that our point of view can be helpful
we are @iyouport_news (twitter)
The issue is not about limiting political activities of foreigners (although to single out Chinese and maybe Russian, as advocated by liberals in the west, seems troublesome). The issue with regard to the new Australian law is to institutionalize and legalize discrimination against a group of citizens, yes citizen(!), based on their national origin and ethnicity.
The analogy between antisinoism and antisemitism is compelling:
1) Their questionable patriotism, because they cling to their old and bizarre culture and tradition that is incompatible with our western civilization.
2) Their refusal to accept the universal truth of the gospel/democracy, they even question that Jesus is exceptionally white the only son of God.
3) They are all rumored to be filthy rich, that is ill begotten through theft and cheating, but never through honest and chivalrous western way of strong arm robbery.
I have plenty of understanding for overseas Chinese who react strongly against foreigners criticizing any aspect of their mother country, including its government - even they are very critical themselves. We are all protective of our own. For myself, I often criticize many aspects of my own country and its government; but I absolutely hate it when an outsider does the same thing, especially when I feel he is motivated more by ill-will than by serious concern.
Criticisms are healthy, whether self-generated or other-generated, when they are NOT based on disinformation, misinformation and/or gross oversimplifications (the 3 things are different). I think that is the point Professor Fran Martin made at the end of the article.
Also, there is a difference between saying "The Swiss or Chinese or UK or German or Italian, etc. form of government stinks" and "Swiss/ Chinese/UK/ Germans/Italian people stink".
From my experience, to-date, only ugly-Americans practice the quaint intellectual oddity.
Thank you for the debate. I found the three opening remarks and guest contribution by Fran Martin insightful and thought-provoking. I voted "yes" - the West should worry about the threat to liberal values posed by China's rise.
My knowledge about the Australian debate is exclusively second-hand. However I have first-hand experience of a similar social phenomenon. I have lived in a Soviet-imposed totalitarian system and throughout the period when my country, Poland, had to somehow overcome the existence of a monoparty stooges and secret police informants in a free society.
The greatest issue I have with Fran Martin's presentation is that she does not link the two aspects she mentions.
If a small number of politically/ideologically zealous students report plans for anti-government protests to their consulates and embassies it is very hard to accept that at least part of those Chinese students who attend occasional activities in Chinese consulates or have contacts with Chinese Students and Scholars Associations, indeed do not report on other Chinese students and/or the activities of Australian universities that may be of interest to Chinese Communist Party. And unfortunately all the good experiences the Author presents do not exclude a possibilty that China’s clandestine political influence is indeed exerted on Australian academic life. Not through all Chinese students, through a small group of them.
So because there's a possibility of a select few Chinese student who are under the control of the Communist party. Discriminating ALL Chinese students is acceptable?
Not sure what your point is.
Before regime change, Chinese students won't be exercise free speech abroad!
The following is written in the spirit of open future and First Amendment freedom. The country abroad, instead of Australia, is America.
This is a very helpful contribution from Professor Fran Martin. It is certainly not one of those articles appearing rather routinely on TE that begin and conclude with a vilifying stereotype of the Chinese culture and the Chinese people (I never deign to comment on those). Heavens knows who manufactured the stereotype. "Bizarre" would be an apt description of it. "Nonplussed" (word used by professor Fran in article) the only possible reaction to what is bizarre. Professor Marin's observation is worth reading from beginning to end.
From my personal experience as a student and later an academic and later a practitioner in the dual field of Law and Psychiatry JD, PhD, I have not in a single instance encountered the sort of things allegedly done by Chinese students reported in the social media, and TE readers’ comments.
As an undergrad student, I received accolades from my professors that embarrassed me. Things written on my papers that read: "I wish my other students would think and write as you do" In two particularly demanding courses for the thinking mind - Philosophy and Comparative Anthology I received the only A in a class of 30. Same thing in History of Western Civilization; the professor invited me for a special chat in his office where 2 other professors showed up to quiz me.
The above personal report sounds boastful. But I am merely reporting facts.
My peers in the same country of origin were likewise "A" students. For one thing, we studied at least twice as hard as American students, being keenly aware that we were working with the disadvantage of using of English as a non-native language in all studies. Our dictionaries were as important as tooth-paste. Many of us, after undergrad, went on to med school and engineering school and continued to excel in them.
Our peer America students could not be friendlier. Three time by three different girls, I was invited to spend weekends with their families; and through them, I met the sweetest American Moms and Dads. They really were like the picture painted by Norman Rockwell. I also became the "adopted daughter" of two America families, who, I am not exaggerating, loved me so much I never knew how to return the love except by loving them back the same way. To this day, decades later, we are in touch, though we are thousands of miles apart. One family wrote my mom to tell her she had a daughter of whom she ought to be "proud". Mr. & Mrs. YC later visited my home where I came from, and my mother visited them in US.
Now I have my own personal "nonplus" experience to report. They are all first person experience.
When I first began commenting on TE some years ago, I received at least a dozen "eviction notices" from a handful of Chinese-haters. Very strange people they were. Here are some of the things they said to me, verbatim: "Go back to where you came from. How dare you comment on TE." (reminds me of Rosa Parks sitting where she was not supposed to sit in a bus - that was 1955 ), "You filthy 5-cents" ("5-cents" is a derogatory racial slur some so-called ‘Yanks” called any Chinese who reads and comments on TE; one chased after me repeatedly to call me that - all recorded on TE archive), "You write bad English" (I have since perused my accusers’ English, can't say their English is better than mine; indeed, upon close scrutiny, some are below grade 8 in English reading comprehension, and nincompoops in everything else). One particular noxious one challenged me to have a contest with him on our respective knowledge of Shakespeare's plays on English Kings; the individual did not last beyond the first round. Another accused me of "appropriating Western culture”; I have had at least 30 different Western professors in my undergrad and grad schools combined - English, Irish, Scot, Jewish, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Pork-eaters, Beef-eaters, male, female, shaved, bearded .... none had accused me of "appropriating" their culture. Indeed, several invited me and my compatriots to their homes for a planned “cultural exchange” experience, beginning with a pot-luck dish we all were asked to bring. (The late Anthony Bourdain would appreciate how this works). Those were wonderful days. Sweet days. They were all real.
They still are, everywhere I go. The fact that I never met in the real in first person any bizarro of the sort fully documented on TE archive (just 4 days ago, one “frequent-flyer” dropped the same bait after a long hibernation) until, and except, on TE, is a puzzle that remains unsolvable.
Professor Fran Martin is right. I quote: “Mutual respectful engagement could enrich and transform both Chinese students’ understandings of the contemporary world and their place within it, and our own understandings of a rising China and our relation to it. Thanks to the over-simplification of key issues in the current debates, unfortunately these opportunities remain largely unrealized.”.
What remains a truism is: Hate-based ignorance will not defeat what is, nor succeed in propagating what is not.
Add envy to hate - you have an illness no chicken soup will cure. At the moment, it is my humble opinion that the average Chinese students, the subject of Professor Fran’s research interest, are infinitely less ignorant about the West, particularly the “West” as exemplified by the the nincompoops I encountered on TE and nowhere else, than the “West” is ignorant about them. To a “Westerner” who likes it this way and is proud of it, I’d say, “If it works for you, help yourself.”
ashbird: You are a valued contributor to these Comments! I dearly wish there were more of you.
Thank you, @Ed Zimmer, that's most kind of you. There are plenty of commenters who have valuable things to contribute; they may not write as often or as much. We all have valuable ideas to contribute when we comment in good faith and not out of dubious motives. Again, thank you. You are most kind.
@Ed Zimmer again, I am feeling a little overwhelmed by the kindness in your reply. Allow me to thank you again. You gave me a feeling I am not "redundant". I am grateful.
"Should the West worry about the threat to liberal values posed by China's rise?” No.
Should Australia be worried? Yes.
I counseled hi-tech entrepreneurs worldwide over the internet for almost 30 years (1988-2014). Until 2000, most were from Europe and the Americas. Around 2000, Asian interest started to build and I found them as excited (and exciting) as those from the West. Until I gave it up in 2014, I saw no differences in freedom to innovate (technically and businesswise) between West and East - and for thee good of us all, I hope that continues.
It is called antisinoism... but I am pretty confident that it will not lead to any Australian pogrom....
I think that what many Australians worry about is something else than pogroms. Ie. that at the very end of the process is such a change of Australian way of life which may lead to incidents such as Tiananmen Square massacre perpetrated on them, or to "xinjiang-isation" of Australia. https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turned-xinjiang-...
No, ol' gal, soon what many Poles are will be worryin' about is your eu's "xinjiang-isation" of POLAND.
The Bossy Berlin rump, Tusk's boss, that Murky bloke, whose fortunes are wobblin, is informed that 2018 will be a bumper year for migrants accordin' to the IOM (from a reliable i.e. non-eu source).
Murky will sit on her Tusk device to apply more pressure to ship as many of her megaphoned invitees into POLAND as possible.
Your top hole Bulletin o' Sooth from Commodore Sammy da Horta de Lisboa e de São Martinho. You heard it here first!
My experience teaching issues relating to social and political philosophy in Australia up to the end of 2016 very much fits the argument offered in this piece. I came across no hint of problematic behaviour on the part of mainland Chinese students.