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Why Turkey’s troops are in Syria again

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kiratwan

There is no love lost between Turkey and USA. Erdogan
accused USA's involvement in coupe to overthrow him.
There is also report of USA planning to establish base
in Syrian area controlled by YPG. This means USA will
be there for ever and protect Kurds. One's freedom fighter
is another's terrorist. India calls Kashmiris fighting for
independence the terrorists, Israel call Palestinians terrorists,
Turkey call Kurds terrorists,Spain used to call ETA terrorists.
Common definition of terrorists is the group of people
fighting for independence and refusing to accept control.
It is easier to kill them without international condemnation
if they are labeled terrorist and not as freedom fighters.

Bruce1253

We should not be here. The peoples of the region have been fighting each other for centuries. All we have accomplished there is to give 6th century tribesmen better weapons. We should cut off aid to all parties, including Israel, and come home. We could use that money to solve some of our own problems.

Let the people of the region determine their own fate, they are the only ones who can. Personally I think they will continue to slaughter each other until there is no one left. That will be their choice and not our concern.

charmingfelix in reply to guest-ajneoaoe

1) Killing civillians: a) Turkey has killed , ethnically cleansed and is still killing a lot more civillians than anyone in history. , including it's own citizens who 'repeatedly bang they head against the wall' in polic stations, progrommes to wipe off every minority, the Cyprus invasion , ethnic cleansing and colonization, various bombings in Iraq and Syria and of course the current Afrin invasion. By the way killing civillians is a pet activity of Erdogan's friends, like Hamas and ISIS. Ergogan has NO problem with ISIS at his border and was gleeful about expecting Kobani to 'fall within days'. Hamas terrorists, whom Erdogan actively supports routinely fire rockets and conduct terror attacks agains civillians (including their own). Erdogan does not consider either Hamas or ISIS a 'terror army' and considers YPG, which has not fired a single shot on Turkey 'terror'. It was Turkey who created, apart from its own armed forces a terror army, i.e. the so called FSA, composed of known jihadists.
2)adbucting kids and use them as soldiers. Well, Turkey has written the book on devshirme and jannisseries, i.e. adbucting christian children to brainwash them into islam and use them against their kin. And what evidence is there that YPG or PKK is doing that? What kids were adbucted?
3) You mean like in Cyprus and Afrin? YPG on the contrary has sheltered Arab refugees from further south and saved many , like the Yazidis?
4)You mean the various progrommes carried out by Turkey to get rid of infidels? What rules does YPG obeyed? Respect democracy, tolerate religious differences and fight ISIS?
5)Extortion is another turkish invention, i.e. the infamous 'head tax' imposed on infidels so they keep their head (no guarantees though). Or the money extorted from refugees to put them on a boat and sink it in the Aegean. Do you have any evidence of YPG extortion? Who was supposedly extorted?
6)Who has YPG attacked in Europe? Last time I checked it was ISIS doing the attacks, i.e. your friend! Turkey lecturing on others rights and lives? When is Turkey going to hand over the scum murders wanted by Interpol for the 1996 murders of unarmed cypriot civillians in the buffer zone?
7) For your record, Israel has 3 times conquered the Sinai and 3 times has withdrawn in return for PROMISES of peace. When was the last time Turkey withdrew from land it occupied without losing a war? When did Israel adbuct kids, drive people off their homes (in case you missed it, Palestinian 'refugees' left at the request of the INVADING Arab League who told them to leave, so they could wipe off the jews and then they could return). And FYI Israel is not firing rockets into cities or deliberately kill civillians. Do not mistake Israel with Turkey, Turkey is the undisputed Champion of massacres, Israel or the YPG and PKK is not even in the minor leagues.

u39b

This article is at very least dishonest in its portrayal of Turkey's earlier engagement "against ISIS".
.
Turkey supported Daesh for several years - with thriving trade, free passage of Daesh fighters into Syria, supplies of munitions, etc.
.
Turkey did not intervene (notionally against Daesh) until Kurdish forces crossed west of the Euphrates - until Kurdish forces were already on the verge of sweeping Daesh out of Syria and creating a contiguous Kurdish/ Rojava territory from Efrin to the border with Iraq.
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Turkey's motive for its first on-land presence in Syria was not to create a "safe zone". It wasn't to fight Daesh. It was to combat growing Kurdish influence and their capacity for future autonomy within Syria. Just as Turkey's earlier (covert) support for Daesh was partially to counter the Syrian government, and partially to combat Kurds...
.
Now that Turkey is going all-in in Efrin, there really isn't anything to disguise the intent. They are blowing up Hittite temples for no tactical gain whatsoever, and callously bombarding civilian settlements. The Turkish goal is to drive people away, to undermine the economic basis for a self-administered or successful Kurdish region, and do destroy both the political organization and security structures that might allow a successful Kurdish-administered region.
.
Can we ethnically stand by Erdogan on this? Or is it time to push them out of NATO - and insist on some minimal ethical criteria for membership?

charmingfelix in reply to Bruce1253

So why were we in Yugoslavia? Second, by this logic, why were we in WWI ? Suppose the last people standing in the Middle East is ISIS or its equivalent. How long do you think it will take till they set their eyes to Africa, Europe and ultimately the US too?

timefortea in reply to ePil

If the Ottoman Empire has shrunk a little more after the First World War, and an independent Kurdistan been created, Turkey would probably not need to be fighting a war now.

ChrisC_

Once upon a time an Islamist gained power in Turkey. Erdogan surprised most analysts and improved the economy, made the country more inclusive, relations between Turks and Kurds improved. Fast forward 15 years later, and the same person is a dictator, imprisoning thousands and firing from public posts tens of thousands that have different views than him, the economy lost part of its competitiveness and he invades foreign countries. As another commentator said, this will not end well and the prospect of a civil war in Turkey is becoming a possibility.
How can the international community closes its eyes and ears to the oppression of so many millions of people, Kurds in Turkey, but also secular moderate Turks is sad. Another failure of the UN that does not act as the people of the world would like it to act.

serban p.

There was a time when it looked like Erdogan was willing to reach an accommodation with the Turkish Kurds. He is now more interested in using them as a prop to increase his grip on power. It is all a political game for him, little to do with improving Turkish security. Turkey could have invaded the Afrin area when ISIS was in control of it and chose not to do so. But now that the Kurds did all the fighting and defeated ISIS Erdogan is pounding on them. He finds this more politically convenient than any negotiations with the Kurds. This is not going to end well for anybody.

Tokarian in reply to joangrau

"Syrian kurdish (sic) is an internal affair of Turkey." Why and how when it is beyond the frontier of Turkey.

"Spanish police brutality againts (sic) the Catalans is an internal affair of Spain." Wrong! It is an affair of the whole EU. Don't you know anything?!?! Do you live in Pyong Yang or Asmara?

Tokarian in reply to guest-ajneoaoe

Could you please give more information about the Kurds who "bash people in European airports"? This is a real humdinger.

The sooner the Kurds have their own homeland in the lands they traditionally occupy, the better. Just in case you don't know already, this is what it should look like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan#/media/File:Kurdish-inhabited_area_by_CIA_(1992)_box_inset_removed.jpg

Tokarian in reply to guest-ajneoaoe

You are seriously deluded to wit:

"U.S. used the situation to legitimize their invasion of Syria." Oh yes? When was that nonsense?

"U.S. objective is to build a poppet marksist (sic), terrorist state in south of Turkey" nice irony.

"Turkey together with the local fighters which includes local Kurds" ha ha, very funny.

No doubt you believe Greece and Turkey are fighting together to free Cyprus from US domination too.

ePil

Perhaps the roots of the disaster was the 2003 US' invasion of Iraq, and perhaps US is now reaping the real disaster of what i sowed then. It's not a natural law that Turkey - or any other nation - is a US ally, and Turkey might find out Russia is a better companion in the future.

Recently Turkey signed a deal on missile defence systems from Russia, not from US or a NATO country, and Turkey has been working closer with Russia on the Syria conflict. Signs of an empire falling apart.

Wamboin

Two thoughts about this:

First, the US seems to keep on doing things in the Middle East without any overall strategic plan or agreement with - or feel for the legitimate interests of - the various players. The result has been grim.

The Kurds are among a growing list of people who have cooperated with, and have made sacrifices for, Western powers and who have then been betrayed.

guest-ajneoaoe in reply to kiratwan

You have to look no further than a groups actions like YPG, PKK to identify them as terrorist;
- They kill civilians
- They abduct kids to use as soldiers and/or their drugs operations
- They drive people out of their homes and land
- They threat and kill people to obey their rules
- They collect extortion
- Recent they attack and bash people in European airports and cities. They have no respect for others rights and lives.

If you have to compare YPG, PKK to any other party, Israel as a state matches the conditions perfectly.

shenanD

Erdogan has mastered the art of Orwellian doublespeak. Invasion of a neighbor is "Olive Branch," authoritarianism is "democracy," and total censorship is labelled "the freest press in the world.”

&

This Olive-Branch fantasy cannot be fully understood in isolation from the domestic politics in Turkey. Erdogan is facing a crucial election in 2019, and his poll numbers are significantly down. He needs a good war to shore up his base, otherwise I suspect there are already plans for a luxury suite for him at the Silivri Prison.

guest-ajneoaoe

U.S. built, armed and supported ISIS to create instability and to drive local population out of their lands.
Then, U.S. used the situation to legitimize their invasion of Syria.
Then, U.S. armed and organized Kurdish terrorists to stage a fake take over from ISIS.
U.S. controlled YPG forced more locals to vacate the land. Most of them are refugees in Turkey.
U.S. objective is to build a poppet marksist, terrorist state in south of Turkey to be used for further atrocities in the region.

Turkey together with the local fighters which includes local Kurds is fighting against this plan. Turkey's objective is to return the land to it's owners which is mostly Arabs, Kurds, Turkmens and others.

U.S. policies and atrocities locally and globally are the biggest barrier to freedom and prosperity for everybody including the U.S. citizens.

U.S. has repeatedly proved to be an ally more harmful and dangerous than an enemy.

joangrau

Syrian kurdish is an internal affair of Turkey. IS is an internal affair of USA. Spanish police brutality againts the Catalans is an internal affair of Spain. If you are neither Kurdish nor IS member or Catalan be calm is not your internal affair.