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"Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore.' ” The Raven, by Edgar Allan Poe
"Quoth the Voter 'Never Moore' " The Election, by the Alabama Voters.
ARE YOU BAGGING ME! Jones wins!?! WTF? I'm delighted to say Alabamans aren't the fools I thought they were. Sanity prevails.
Dump is looking toxic. No coattails for Orange Sphincter. Schutzstaffel Kommandant Herr Bannon is kaput. He was no help to the pistol waving wannabe cowboy and exiled mall rat.
There may be hope for America after all.
Sanity might not have fully returned to the States but it def has found the map to get home.
Let Alabama be Alabama! Let Roy be Roy! One thing's sure. No matter who wins, there will be crosses burning throughout the state. Happy, sad - burn a cross. It's an Alabama thing.
He is only accused, not guilty. As a North American, I have become astounded by the dishonesty, manipulation and deceit of its citizens. The dysfunction in many of its communities and the desperation of people to do anything for a quick buck.
As one member of a patient's family informed and warned me to be very careful of some of his family members, as they "will do anything to unearth a reason to sue me. They have nothing and that is the only way their boat is going to come in".
Guilty or not, this whole episode symbolises the state of human frailty on this part of the continent.
what sort of pecuniary advantage are any of the accusers trying to secure, who is trying to make a buck? One person accuses fine let the courts decide but eight, come on wake up.
The Bar Association should have decertified Moore the first time he was removed from Alabama's Supreme Court. Allowing people like Moore to remain officers of the court has diminished the law, the law profession, and intensified the schism in American politics.
Roy Moore is a pedophile. This is going to be a win-win for democrats. If he wins, controversy will persist. If he loses, democrats will also win.
One of Moore's accusers has already admitted FORGERY of Moore's writing in her year book of forty years ago.
-Lies,lies and more Democrat lies
More importantly , 40 years ago girls in Alabama wed at age 13 and had kids by the age of 15 .
The goal posts have been moved since then.
So, no crime- even if all the paid off ladies with 'forty year old' memories were actually telling the truth.
Of course , women never , ever , lie, they are all angels on a pedestal.
Is it just Democratic mud-slinging to set up Trump ?
----'Sexual Harrassment' used to be called flirting, till the PC crowd started manipulating the public in attempt to disenfrachise the Americans who voted Trump, never Hillary.
I don't understand your comments? Are you saying that if it is not a crime that it is perfectly OK?
Or that any behavior is OK, because "everyone else does it".
I am guessing you are not a religious person. Or if you are, you haven't been paying much attention. That is exactly the opposite of what the bible teaches.
BTW, how many of those 13 year olds were marrying 35 year old men? And are you saying that Roy Moore hung out at the mall because he was looking for a wife?
Before you accuse others of lies and mud-slinging, it might do you well to look in the mirror...and maybe actually open up a bible and read it. Or perhaps you consider your bible a FORGERY because someone wrote annotations in it? (Just for the record, that's actually what she did, she added the date. The actual words were still written by him.)
" 'Sexual Harrassment' used to be called flirting": do you mean that if a man (e.g. a work colleague, or her dentist, or the children's pediatrician) accidentally puts his hand between your wife's or your daughter's thighs, that is just 'flirting'? If he annoys her with sexual innuendos, you expect her to pretend she is 'amused'? You sound like a very broad-minded man. Compliments!
Hey Moore apologist, the jackass was TWICE kicked off the bench for breaking the law. As a law BREAKER he has no business going to Washington to be a law maker.
The good people of Alabama understood that and punked Moore at the ballot box. Props to the people of Alabama.
Moore is a religious kook.
His popularity is such that he should have been and might one day be a Televangelist. Its the perfect venue for him to sling religious fables.
The Democratic Candidate Doug Jones reminds me of my uncle, an elected Democrat judge in South Georgia. He had a good heart, and always made sure that the poor and the Black received a fair hearing in his court. He finally switched his allegiance to Republican when Reagan came along. "The Democrats are ruining the country," he said.
That's the way people are going to look at Moore. He expresses his opinions crudely, but people know he is for America, for God, and for Jesus. Those are the things that matter in the hearts of the righteous.
After Doug Jones loses this election, he should heed "the writing on the wall" and switch his party allegiance to Republican. Then he can seek a rematch against Roy Moore in 2020.
Yes Jesus was all about using his position to force himself on young girls. I remember when he said, "Love thy neighbor unless they're gay. And about the poor, changed my mind, they're just takers."
"After Doug Jones loses this election" (by a margin of 15% according to your previous predictions).... But what if he wins?
10:42 pm -- Have a look at the results. Do you think Roy Moore should/will "heed 'the writing on the wall' "?
"After Doug Jones loses this election, ..." Yer, your judgement there is really smart.
Moore's remaining supporters either minimize the importance of his behaviour, or they accept Moore's implausible denials. This is not that mystifying. Other people, too, have been willing to stretch the facts to suit their feelings. Journalists, loathing Moore and eager to demonstrate their fashionable horror of sexual offenses, have been calling him an alleged paedophile or (as here) child molester. He wasn't. He seems to have been a creep who seduced, coerced, and, at least once, grabbed at teenage girls. That should be enough. Exaggerating him into a bigger monster than he was is dishonest, and it plays into his hands: it makes the idea of a media conspiracy seem less delusional, and it reinforces conservative Americans' view of the press as the mouthpiece of the enemy tribe.
Anyway, Trump seems to have calculated that none of his fans will desert him just because he supports someone who's a bigot, a cretin, and a molester of young women. How could they? They do the same.
Following the election of TRUMP as POTUS, the election of Moore to the Senate, a person who is singularly unqualified for the job even without the molestation allegations, will serve as further evidence of the implosion of the USA democracy as it no longer resembles but becomes a society that is simply split on tribal lines, and serve as a beacon in the world for discord and derision.
Who’s the man on the right? The article only mentions who is on the left. Luckily we know TE will chose an unappealing photo of an angry man to represent a(ny) Republican. So he must be Roy Moore (or some other Republican)...
The guy on the left is on the Left, and the guy on the right is on the Right.
... and Fox uses exactly the same picture of Moore - so the choice isn't so biased after all.
Maybe democrats shouldn’t run candidates that are completely unappealing to the voters in such states. I can see why Alabama would rather hold their noses & vote for Moore rather then a candidate who is the polar opposite of what most believe in.
If elected the Senate will investigate Moore ethically & if found guilty he will be removed & replaced with another conservative that will likely mirror most of his constituents beliefs; Doug Jones offers nothing people in Alabama want apart from ‘I’m not Roy Moore’.
I can see why Moore will likely win in spite of his tainted image.
The only thing Roy Moore has to offer is his promise to elevate identity politics above the constitution. I'm not sure "healthcare, a better business environment, fighting corruption, and preserving constitutional rights" is the opposite of what Alabamians want, but I guess we'll see.
Wouldn't an even better solution be for Republicans to actually put up candidates that didn't force people to hold their noses to vote? Why do you accuse Democrats in Alabama of putting up unappealing candidates when the Republicans are doing the same?
I think it is time we look at the primary system as being part of the problem. It encourages the extremes on both sides. The candidate that would actually be acceptable to the largest majority of citizens (i.e. moderates on both sides) never gets past the primaries.
The Republicans & event Trump backed Luther Strange over Moore but that obviously didn’t pan out.
Exactly my point.
"...accused of..." but unproven. Allegations are not facts. Hearsay is not truth, no matter who says it and when.
But that seems to be the modus operandi in a 'democracy' with the media running amok, filled with insinuations, character assassinations. On any topic.
Good one Economist.
So are you then calling the accusers liars?
Didn't see you defending Hillary when she was accused of everything under the sun.
Fox News interviewed people in a diner in Mobile, AL this morning. Everybody interviewed said they were going to vote for Roy Moore.
One of the women said she'd quit seven jobs because her bosses sexually harassed her, so she knew what that issue was all about. "Who are you going to vote for," asked the Fox reporter. "Roy Moore," replied the woman. "He's going to help Trump make America great again." By the way she said it, it sounded like Roy Moore wouldn't have been her ideal choice. He wouldn't have been mine either. Nevertheless, the USA is at a pivot point, and it is essential that the Republicans hold that seat. The Democrats feel that it is equally essential that they obtain it.
Democrats think women are stupid and emotional and can be herded like cattle into the Democrat Corral if their hormones are whipped up into a frenzy of agitation. They do not understand that women vote rationally as men do. They discern that the feeding frenzy against Roy Moore is being whipped up by crass political motives and not by any concern for justice to him or his accusers.
Women judge men easier than men judge each other. In the case of Roy Moore, Democrat and Republican men wanted to hang him out to dry when the allegations were first aired, and that is entirely understandable. Men are protective of women. It has been the women who have said, "Let's give him a fair hearing, because we really don't know what happened 40 years ago."
On that basis Roy Moore will prevail.
By the way she said it, it sounded like Roy Moore wouldn't have been her ideal choice.
Might it be possible (no idea if it reaches "likely") that we have something like the Bradley Effect here? That is, people uncomfortable with admitting that they are actually going to vote for a Democrat, once they are alone in the voting booth. That could produce the same sound, I suspect.
Another interesting dynamic on the polling perspective, Jouris:
In telephone polls conducted by a PERSON, there is a similar effect in which someone will lie about their selection/preference more often than if the same poll is conducted by an automated response system (ie- "PRESS #1 for....")
"Fox News interviewed people in a diner in Mobile, AL this morning. Everybody interviewed said they were going to vote for Roy Moore."
Not sure why we should even have an election then. Why waste all that money? If the people interviewed by Fox News say they are going to vote for Moore, then no reason to even have an election.
Think of all the money we could save by getting rid of all elections entirely. We could just ask Fox News to interview a few people and save tons.
And Langosta accuses Democrats of thinking that people are stupid.
The robopolls do show a Moore lead, while the telephone polls by a person show a Jones lead.
But there is also the detail that, by law, the robopolls cannot go to cell phones. Which skews the demographics of the poll rather substantially. I predict lots of after-the-voting analysis of what impact that had.
One of the women said she'd quit seven jobs because her bosses sexually harassed her, so she knew what that issue was all about. "Who are you going to vote for," asked the Fox reporter. "Roy Moore," replied the woman. "
Moore will win. Pussy grabbing didn't bother them, neither will sexual harassment of teenage girls. Lots of stupid Dump voters in AL. This woman is one of many idiots in that backwater.
"Fox News interviewed people in a diner in Mobile, AL this morning. Everybody interviewed said they were going to vote for Roy Moore." I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. You don't think maybe they edited the tape to make it seem like everyone was voting Moore?
"Democrats think women are stupid and emotional....." --- "Women judge men easier than men judge each other. ..."
With all due respect, I don't think you know very much about women nor, for that matter, about Democrats or anything else.
I would agree, though, that "Roy Moore will prevail" (although I would prefer he did not), but what does that mean: the Republicans have got themselves a religious turd; he will sit among them, be one of them, and tell them what to do because, as he well knows (as they will learn), God speaks through him. Republicans, rejoice, God gave you his Roy Moore!
"On that basis Roy Moore will prevail." lobster boy
"Moore will win." omnnmei
We were both wrong. Jones punks Moore. No more Moore. I'm delighted to be wrong on this occasion. Are you, lobster? Is Orange A'hole? Is Schutzstaffel Kommandant Bannon?
Because it still bears repeating:
I'm from a new land
I come to you and
See all this ruin
What are you doing?
Alabama, you've got the rest of the Union to help you along
What's going wrong?
Great song. It was on Neil Young's beautiful Harvest Album, the first album I ever bought, when I was growing up in Alabama. I loved that song, even though the lyrics were not flattering of the state. I still play "Old Man" and "Heart of Gold" from that album --- two of the best songs ever written. I hear "Needle and the Damage Done" played in bars to this day. I admire Neil Young and appreciate his wise advice: "Life is YOUR film. Produce it your way."
About that same time as Neil Young was becoming famous with Harvest, New York City was going bankrupt due to paying out more in social welfare than it could collect in tax receipts. New York City's mayor and New York State's Congressional delegation f went crawling on their bellies to Washington, demanding a Federal bailout. The Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee at that time was Alabama Senator James Allen. He refused to authorize the bailout.
I remember seeing a debate on Meet the Press between the Mayor of New York and Senator James Allen of Alabama. The Mayor of New York was was bawling like a baby whose pacifier has been taken out of its mouth. "Our people will suffer if we don't get money from the federal government to pay our bills. Senator Allen, PLEASE let us have the money!"
Old Senator Allen just smiled. "Now don't go fussin' at me. I'm just trying to help ya'll out by not givin' you any of our Money. You people up 'ar in New York need to learn that when a feller' can't pay his bills, it's his problem. He can't go round town makin' demands on his neighbors to pay them. I'm tryin' to help ya'll learn that you got to stand on yore own two feet and not go botherin' the good people of Alabama an other states to pay yore bills."
Because of Senator Allen's opposition, New York City never got a penny of other people's money. They had to tighten up their budget, then elect more responsible mayors like Koch and Giuliani to restore order. New Yorkers need to thank the good people of Alabama for putting them in their place and forcing them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps instead of becoming parasites on Alabama and the rest of the country.
"New Yorkers need to thank the good people of Alabama for putting them in their place and forcing them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps instead of becoming parasites on Alabama and the rest of the country."
Aaaaaand nowadays- how much does AL receive in federal support compared to what they send in via taxes?
(HINT: In Alabama gets $2.46 in return for every ONE DOLLAR paid in federal income tax- which ranks third highest in the US).
Two of those people were our neighbors. They came to Alabama from Upstate New York and never went back home. They retired in Alabama and are drawing their Social Security there. Not many people retire to New York, do they?
Lobster boy just got punked by Nicky. AL, another parasite red state.
New York is a big city, not a place where people go for retirement. If your former neighbors retired in Alabama, it is probably because they did not have enough money to retire in Florida, or in upstate Michigan, as you did.
So New York remains one of the most dynamic and exciting cities in the world and Alabama remains a backwater of rural and rustbelt ignorance, bigotry and fundamentalist religion. Senator James Allen sure did a good job for you.
If America survives Trump and whatever monster he has roused (a very big if, I must add), he will have unwittingly done it one very big favour, i.e., holding a much-needed mirror to its face. And if that were to happen, the majority of it will be so shocked by the darkness and ugliness they see in that mirror that they will agitate for the kind of radical, civilized change beyond anything they've ever experienced. So, yes, there is the possibility (a very slim one) that a Trump was what America always needed to move it forward - though it would obviously have been far better if that change had happened without him and his ilk.
Considering that by every measurable economic measure America has been doing better then it has in quite awhile since the Trump election add in that ISIS barely exists anymore & America is engaged in less armed conflicts since Bush, I don’t think you’ll be finding much regret
Actually, both the economy and ISIS are Obama's legacy. The economy was already creating unprecedented levels of private-sector jobs under Obama, and the latter's strategy against ISIS was probably the only Obama legacy that Trump left intact - all credit to McMaster and Mattis. Trump certainly didn't "bomb the shit out of" them as he'd boasted during his campaign. It stood no chance of success, as every military strategist could have told him for no fee.
On warmongering: Yes, I cheered when Trump pledged to defy the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Mainstream-Media-Complex, though not for the same motives as his. (After all, you could admire Hitler's autobahns and industrial/economic regeneration without sharing his motivations.) Still, only a brave observer would rule out an impulsive nuclear attack on North Korea in response to an infantile insult from Kim Jung-Un (don't take my word: recall his "fire and fury" and other threats). And Iran will almost certainly be attacked on Netanyahu's behalf (and is already "on notice", to use his exact phrase). Venezuela and Cuba might follow. So there lies your certainty about his aversion to foreign wars.
But even if you reject everything I've written and rule out my worst fears, you'll be left with the demons that Trump has already unleashed. And even if you don't trust me here, you'd be wise to listen to the Ku Klux Klan and their kindred spirits. Also, recall that like Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy, Trump's America is already a merger between corporate interests and the state - which also happened to be Il Duce's very definition of fascism. And if you still don't believe me, compare a videos of Il Duce and Trump, including their gestures and mannerisms!
So, to sum up, I may not have much "regrets" about America as you suggest (who cares what another society chooses to do to itself?), but am entitled to observe (and even celebrate, were I so inclined) its suicidal antics.
Regardless oh who’s legacy things may be the President who is in office when they occur gets the credit. Hence Bill Clinton getting credit for Bush’s economy; Reagan getting credit for the Iranian hostage release. Saber rattling (see teddy Roosevelt for example) also is much different then actual warring such as we saw throughout the Obama’presidency. Will the trend of reduced warring continue with Trump? Who knows; but so far so good.
As far as a slide to facism; that’s would be extremely hard under their form of government so I’d say the imminent death of the US democracy is greatly exaggerated in the words of Mark Twain
On achievements and plaudits: Even by your logic, it would have been more accurate to have ascribed those successes to their true achiever first, before applying your principle of transferred attribution:)
On warmongering: No, because even if you ignore everything I've written, Nato's insane provocations against Russia have actually intensified under Trump - whatever you may say about his relationship with Putin. And if this doesn't keep you awake at night, nothing will. Note also that he has reversed his policy on Afghanistan by increasing troop levels there. Still optimistic? Not to mention his decision to take sides in the ancient, blood-soaked Sunni-Shia feuds in the Gulf, which is bound to come to a head sooner than later. Or his active involvement in Yemen (particularly in offering "targetting" technology to his Saudis friends). Add to this his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital ... actually, I'll let that speak for itself. And these are the ones we know about - not the covert ones such as Niger and Mali.
Fascism: I hope you're right, but I'm entitled to note the striking parallels even if you don't agree - surely.
Gawd - so f-Ing sick and tired of American politics and I don’t even live there.
American politics - culture wars, really - have become an awful circus for the rest of the world to cringe at. Too bad it's contagious in some ways.
But looking at recent events in various places in Europe, it looks like it may also have reached the point of immunizing them. At least to some degree.
But these evangelists tell us that they are backed by the bible.
So did the South Africans whites.
So did the slaveholders.